Armstrong Armstrong

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garys
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Armstrong Armstrong

#1 Post by garys » 03 Nov 2017 17:03

Armstrong seems to have moved off of the conventional UHF frequencies that are listed in the Wiki and is operating on the LTR systems.

One thing that seems odd is that BLS and Chair Cars are operating on the Dispatch Communications LTR while ALS is operating on the Metro Radio LTR.

Related to that is that the four frequencies for Dispatch Communications that are show with LCN information do not seem to be active. I have LCN Finder running on on of my 536HPs and so far it has found the 8 known LCNs, but nothing else.

I've filled in some of the missing TG information on both system.

It also appears that on Dispatch Communications there are multiple talk groups assigned for CWID. All of them end in 253.
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

n1zyy
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#2 Post by n1zyy » 16 Dec 2017 22:19

I always assumed that the "Dispatch Communications" and "Metro Repeater Service" systems were operated by the same entity. Some of the Metro licenses are for Dispatch. Incidentally, the tower that used to house the Metro system is no longer there; seems like Waltham succeeded in having it torn down. I thought I saw PAs to move the system to Boston, but can't seem access ULS right now. It does seem odd that ALS and BLS would be on different systems, though, unless there was some historical reason for it.

The -253 talkgroups seem to identify each repeater, e.g., 1-02-253 is always on LCN 02, and this has helped identify some of them. I had also used LCN Finder to try to map it out earlier in the year. It does look like 16 is logically missing. There were a whole bunch of frequencies associated with the system that don't seem to be used, which is also a bit confusing.
Matt
Lowell, MA

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garys
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#3 Post by garys » 18 Dec 2017 14:01

You may be right about them being the same entity. That seems to be common among some of the UHF trunking systems where licenses are spread out among a number of different entities that share some relationships.

Why they do it the way they do, especially when they were running on conventional for a while, is unclear. Maybe it has something to do with the relocation of equipment from the old tower to the new one. I happened to be up and down 95 in that area over the days they were dismantling the old one. My guess is that equipment was moved from the old tower to one or more of the other towers. I think at least one of them is new.

The ID talk groups were a bit strange, but I my only real interest in them was locking them out. There don't seem to be very many users on either system, so it might be good for someone in that area who has the capability to see if any of those frequencies pop up on DMR or NXDN systems.
n1zyy wrote:I always assumed that the "Dispatch Communications" and "Metro Repeater Service" systems were operated by the same entity. Some of the Metro licenses are for Dispatch. Incidentally, the tower that used to house the Metro system is no longer there; seems like Waltham succeeded in having it torn down. I thought I saw PAs to move the system to Boston, but can't seem access ULS right now. It does seem odd that ALS and BLS would be on different systems, though, unless there was some historical reason for it.

The -253 talkgroups seem to identify each repeater, e.g., 1-02-253 is always on LCN 02, and this has helped identify some of them. I had also used LCN Finder to try to map it out earlier in the year. It does look like 16 is logically missing. There were a whole bunch of frequencies associated with the system that don't seem to be used, which is also a bit confusing.
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

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ecps92
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#4 Post by ecps92 » 18 Dec 2017 14:51

Yes they are 100% one and the same.
http://www.dispatchcom.com/html/network.html

Three Different FRN's of 0005137674 , 0022117501 and 0003612983
n1zyy wrote:I always assumed that the "Dispatch Communications" and "Metro Repeater Service" systems were operated by the same entity. Some of the Metro licenses are for Dispatch. Incidentally, the tower that used to house the Metro system is no longer there; seems like Waltham succeeded in having it torn down. I thought I saw PAs to move the system to Boston, but can't seem access ULS right now. It does seem odd that ALS and BLS would be on different systems, though, unless there was some historical reason for it.

The -253 talkgroups seem to identify each repeater, e.g., 1-02-253 is always on LCN 02, and this has helped identify some of them. I had also used LCN Finder to try to map it out earlier in the year. It does look like 16 is logically missing. There were a whole bunch of frequencies associated with the system that don't seem to be used, which is also a bit confusing.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

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garys
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#5 Post by garys » 18 Dec 2017 19:56

Nice pick up. It will be interesting to see what goes with what. And if there is any digital in the mix.
ecps92 wrote:Yes they are 100% one and the same.
http://www.dispatchcom.com/html/network.html

Three Different FRN's of 0005137674 , 0022117501 and 0003612983
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

n1zyy
Posts: 57
Joined: 29 May 2017 20:56
Location: Lowell, MA

#6 Post by n1zyy » 18 Dec 2017 22:41

I have a hunch they simply moved from Prospect Hill to the Prudential. Look at the amendments on WIL979 for example; there's a document showing it adding Boston inside their existing coverage area from Waltham. (The joys of T-band "giveback"?) Looks like 4K00F1E was also added on at least some of them.

I'm curious what you mean you mean about one of the towers being new; not because I doubt you, but because I'm clueless. :) I was only aware of the Waltham, Nashua, and Boston ones.

I ran an LCN Finder overnight on the (existing) Boston system and confirmed the same set of LCNs you got. Haven't listened to the "Waltham" one in a bit; especially with the new emission designators, I should give it a whirl again, as you suggested.
Matt
Lowell, MA

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ecps92
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#7 Post by ecps92 » 19 Dec 2017 07:05

IF I recall, Many Years ago [back in the days of the Original Deerfield Fleas] the various names were due to absorbing another company
Could be [memory fades with age] Wrong, but Dave was a regular at Deerfield etc and Bruce-339 and I were regulars to visit his booth/tent/tables
garys wrote:Nice pick up. It will be interesting to see what goes with what. And if there is any digital in the mix.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

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garys
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#8 Post by garys » 19 Dec 2017 08:09

I thought that one of those towers was new, but maybe not. It makes sense that they moved to Boston. Actually, it's the only way the license data does make sense since I don't see them building duplicate systems that close. It might also explain why Armstrong was on conventional frequencies for about a year.

To the end users, the two different trunk systems might appear as one. That is, they just turn to a particular talk group and don't know which trunk system it's actually on. From the bit I saw of about the radios on the Dispatch website, they can operate on multiple trunk systems.

Dispatch also runs a mutli site NEXEDGE96 trunk site. There is a site listed for Framingham, but I can't hear it particularly well.
n1zyy wrote:I have a hunch they simply moved from Prospect Hill to the Prudential. Look at the amendments on WIL979 for example; there's a document showing it adding Boston inside their existing coverage area from Waltham. (The joys of T-band "giveback"?) Looks like 4K00F1E was also added on at least some of them.

I'm curious what you mean you mean about one of the towers being new; not because I doubt you, but because I'm clueless. :) I was only aware of the Waltham, Nashua, and Boston ones.

I ran an LCN Finder overnight on the (existing) Boston system and confirmed the same set of LCNs you got. Haven't listened to the "Waltham" one in a bit; especially with the new emission designators, I should give it a whirl again, as you suggested.
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

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ecps92
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#9 Post by ecps92 » 19 Dec 2017 08:19

Waltham sites [Bear Hill and Prospect Hill] have undergone many changes in the past few years, with some new towers and consolidations of sites.
garys wrote:I thought that one of those towers was new, but maybe not. It makes sense that they moved to Boston. Actually, it's the only way the license data does make sense since I don't see them building duplicate systems that close. It might also explain why Armstrong was on conventional frequencies for about a year.

To the end users, the two different trunk systems might appear as one. That is, they just turn to a particular talk group and don't know which trunk system it's actually on. From the bit I saw of about the radios on the Dispatch website, they can operate on multiple trunk systems.

Dispatch also runs a mutli site NEXEDGE96 trunk site. There is a site listed for Framingham, but I can't hear it particularly well.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

n1zyy
Posts: 57
Joined: 29 May 2017 20:56
Location: Lowell, MA

#10 Post by n1zyy » 19 Dec 2017 11:47

I ran LCN Finder overnight on the "Waltham" Metro Repeater Service frequencies. (Specifically, those that were on the wiki page. I didn't go through all the licenses.) These are the only LCNs that were found in ~9 hours of running (and all 4 came up in 15 minutes or so):

01 - 470.2375
05 - 470.2625
13 - 472.9125
17 - 472.3625

Don't know if the others were peeled off for other uses, are too weak to be heard up here, or what. Assuming you wanted to space the LCNs out evenly (I recall there's something with how the bus works where it's best to keep them spaced evenly), it seems like 09 is conspicuously absent from my findings.

The Dispatch site indicates they have an LTR site in Andover as well. Radio Reference still lists it, but I never heard anything on it and it hasn't been updated in years. Curious if anyone knows if that's still operative? Maybe that's my next thing to park the scanner on while I'm not actively listening. I suspect it's dead, though.
Matt
Lowell, MA

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