MSP Troop E to be eliminated

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cdgordon
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MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#1 Post by cdgordon » 02 Apr 2018 14:32

MSP announces plans to eliminate Troop E and assign duties to surrounding Troops.

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker announced Monday that he is eliminating an entire state police troop and activating GPS locators in all state police cruisers to increase accountability in the wake of a recent overtime scandal.

https://www.necn.com/news/politics/Gov- ... 27833.html

chris

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garys
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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#2 Post by garys » 02 Apr 2018 16:59

Interesting approach to the problems going on. Note that I didn't see innovative, likely to succeed, or clearly based on an understanding of the problem. Of course, the only reason there ever was a Troop E was because at one point the Mass. Turnpike Authority owned the road and contracted with the MSP for police coverage.

Ecps92 may remember better, but as I recall, the cruisers weren't owned by the MSP and the payroll actually came from the MTA. Going back even further, cruisers were green and white and marked "Massachusetts Turnpike Police". You have to be really, really, old to remember that. A guy that worked for my father had a Chrysler Town and Country station wagon that was a former turnpike cruiser. That was in the late 1960s or maybe early 1970s.

Anyway, now that the MTA is gone and part of MassDot, there's no real reason that the road can't be patrolled by each troop that it passes through. Except of course that it passes through multiple troops and there is going to be significant overlap due to the limited number of interchanges. Especially way out west where dragons still roam. :)

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#3 Post by wltrsf » 02 Apr 2018 20:23

I think there's some people who still can't believe 159.03 is dead, the former main Turnpike channel for so long.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#4 Post by KB1FJR » 02 Apr 2018 20:31

I see the E-1 weston Barracks which is brand new being reassigned to Framingham (H-3 Framingham) since the building is very old and closing the old Framingham Barracks. E-2 Charlton is somewhat older and probably on obsolete inside, I see the charlton building eventually closing as a state police facility and being like the “southborough barracks” which has been closed probably for 40 years but has been used for offices and parking areas for maintenance and other state vehicles. C-5 Sturbridge can easily take over the building for Troop E most likely. This is just me speculating.

The question is how many units will be assigned to the turnpike and if the level of service is still provided and not dumped on “off road cruisers” with troopers who are commuting home.

The big question what becomes of Troop E dispatch and the Troop E talk groups? I don’t think they will have dispatchers just for one road and I see the troop areas dispatching on the Troop B/C and H talk groups.

I think phase one will be reassigning command staff and the troop e talkgroup and dispatch will still exist.

Than more noticeable changes will happen no more Troop E collar pins and no more Troop E cruiser numbers. This will be the most visible change to the public.

Than eventually no more Troop E talkgroups.

This won’t happen overnight of course.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#5 Post by garys » 02 Apr 2018 20:34

I'm still waiting for that newfangled trunking system to be turned off and all traffic returned to the 42.xx channels. ;)
wltrsf wrote:
02 Apr 2018 20:23
I think there's some people who still can't believe 159.03 is dead, the former main Turnpike channel for so long.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#6 Post by KB1FJR » 02 Apr 2018 21:25

I remember the Troop E “go to 7 days” it was 42.420 Mhz. It was used for car to car probably up until the trunked system. Along with the 159.030 GE Turkey Call Unit Is beep

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#7 Post by cdgordon » 03 Apr 2018 09:58

Not that long ago, CT SP merged Troop W (Bradley Airport) with Troop H. I don't know what the original goal was but they really only eliminated a couple positions. They still have separate dispatch, still have same number of troopers assigned, just no Troop Commander and XO.
I would suspect that this is not entirely related to the overtime scandal, but had been looked at before for cost savings.

chris

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#8 Post by garys » 03 Apr 2018 10:40

I suspect it's politics. This is an election year for the Governor and someone is likely to be running against him. If you've ever seen Blazing Saddles, think about that scene where the Governor and his advisers are sitting around discussing the crisis. They need to do something to protect their phoney baloney jobs. Harumph!
cdgordon wrote:
03 Apr 2018 09:58
Not that long ago, CT SP merged Troop W (Bradley Airport) with Troop H. I don't know what the original goal was but they really only eliminated a couple positions. They still have separate dispatch, still have same number of troopers assigned, just no Troop Commander and XO.
I would suspect that this is not entirely related to the overtime scandal, but had been looked at before for cost savings.

chris

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#9 Post by Pacmannion » 05 Apr 2018 13:41

KB1FJR wrote:
02 Apr 2018 20:31
I see the E-1 weston Barracks which is brand new being reassigned to Framingham (H-3 Framingham) since the building is very old and closing the old Framingham Barracks. E-2 Charlton is somewhat older and probably on obsolete inside, I see the charlton building eventually closing as a state police facility and being like the “southborough barracks” which has been closed probably for 40 years but has been used for offices and parking areas for maintenance and other state vehicles. C-5 Sturbridge can easily take over the building for Troop E most likely. This is just me speculating.
According to the offical press release from Baker and the Colonel:
The existing Turnpike barracks will remain open but troopers assigned to each will report to commanders of the geographic troops to which they are now assigned.


I'm betting that it'll go like this:
  • E-1 Weston and E-4 Tunnels will become H-8 and H-9
    E-2 Charlton will become C-10
    E-3 Westfield becomes B-7
Of course, it may eventually end with some barracks closures.
KB1FJR wrote:
02 Apr 2018 20:31
The question is how many units will be assigned to the turnpike and if the level of service is still provided and not dumped on “off road cruisers” with troopers who are commuting home.
Also, according to to the state press release:
Authorize 30-Day Audit of Turnpike Barracks:

Colonel Gilpin will also conduct a study of the patrols and overtime shifts worked in each Turnpike barracks. This audit will identify ways to more effectively deploy resources and examine the appropriate number of patrols assigned to each barracks location.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#10 Post by ecps92 » 05 Apr 2018 14:32

Correct on who owned those cars, and if I recall it was the same for F-Troop
which is why those folks didn't have Take-Home Cruisers
garys wrote:
02 Apr 2018 16:59
Interesting approach to the problems going on. Note that I didn't see innovative, likely to succeed, or clearly based on an understanding of the problem. Of course, the only reason there ever was a Troop E was because at one point the Mass. Turnpike Authority owned the road and contracted with the MSP for police coverage.

Ecps92 may remember better, but as I recall, the cruisers weren't owned by the MSP and the payroll actually came from the MTA. Going back even further, cruisers were green and white and marked "Massachusetts Turnpike Police". You have to be really, really, old to remember that. A guy that worked for my father had a Chrysler Town and Country station wagon that was a former turnpike cruiser. That was in the late 1960s or maybe early 1970s.

Anyway, now that the MTA is gone and part of MassDot, there's no real reason that the road can't be patrolled by each troop that it passes through. Except of course that it passes through multiple troops and there is going to be significant overlap due to the limited number of interchanges. Especially way out west where dragons still roam. :)

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#11 Post by ecps92 » 05 Apr 2018 14:33

8 - 44.74 [Small Town Patrol and GATSF 1]
9 - 44.90 [GATSF 2]

Ahhh, the ole low-band days
KB1FJR wrote:
02 Apr 2018 21:25
I remember the Troop E “go to 7 days” it was 42.420 Mhz. It was used for car to car probably up until the trunked system. Along with the 159.030 GE Turkey Call Unit Is beep

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#12 Post by ecps92 » 05 Apr 2018 14:37

As to the TG's - reassigned or not used. Just like they did with others. GATSF, some MEMA, DFS etc
However, I don't see with the volume of Tunnel/Boston traffic that the tow trucks etc go to an H-PTL-x channel [just my opinion]
Maybe for B/C they can do that, but not the Tunnels etc.

And Southboro was once the MCJTC and last was home to the EZ-Pass/Camera violation unit
KB1FJR wrote:
02 Apr 2018 20:31
I see the E-1 weston Barracks which is brand new being reassigned to Framingham (H-3 Framingham) since the building is very old and closing the old Framingham Barracks. E-2 Charlton is somewhat older and probably on obsolete inside, I see the charlton building eventually closing as a state police facility and being like the “southborough barracks” which has been closed probably for 40 years but has been used for offices and parking areas for maintenance and other state vehicles. C-5 Sturbridge can easily take over the building for Troop E most likely. This is just me speculating.

The question is how many units will be assigned to the turnpike and if the level of service is still provided and not dumped on “off road cruisers” with troopers who are commuting home.

The big question what becomes of Troop E dispatch and the Troop E talk groups? I don’t think they will have dispatchers just for one road and I see the troop areas dispatching on the Troop B/C and H talk groups.

I think phase one will be reassigning command staff and the troop e talkgroup and dispatch will still exist.

Than more noticeable changes will happen no more Troop E collar pins and no more Troop E cruiser numbers. This will be the most visible change to the public.

Than eventually no more Troop E talkgroups.

This won’t happen overnight of course.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#13 Post by garys » 05 Apr 2018 15:07

That's Troop F, Never F Troop!!!!! :)

I think F does now, but I'm not 100% sure. E can thank The Herald for getting take home cars. The Herald had a series of articles about the $75.00/week the E troopers got for not having take home cars. So, the Turpike bought them take home cars. Which allowed them to drive to and from the Turnpike in cruisers and in uniform. Which meant that many more "off duty" traffic stops and that much more court OT they could get.

Stupid Herald.

As you note, E Patrol 4 is a pretty active TG with all of the stuff going on between 95 and the airport, as well as the tunnels. As I recall, they also have I-93 from Southampton Street to the north side of the Zakim. It used to be amusing when cruisers from E, H, F, and A showed up at a MVA and everyone was point to the other guy saying "It's on you!".

We just laughed because no matter which Barracks it was on, it was our call anyway.
ecps92 wrote:
05 Apr 2018 14:32
Correct on who owned those cars, and if I recall it was the same for F-Troop
which is why those folks didn't have Take-Home Cruisers

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#14 Post by ecps92 » 05 Apr 2018 18:00

And... don't forget they got the Tobin from F-Troop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_Troop
garys wrote:
05 Apr 2018 15:07
That's Troop F, Never F Troop!!!!! :)

I think F does now, but I'm not 100% sure. E can thank The Herald for getting take home cars. The Herald had a series of articles about the $75.00/week the E troopers got for not having take home cars. So, the Turpike bought them take home cars. Which allowed them to drive to and from the Turnpike in cruisers and in uniform. Which meant that many more "off duty" traffic stops and that much more court OT they could get.

Stupid Herald.

As you note, E Patrol 4 is a pretty active TG with all of the stuff going on between 95 and the airport, as well as the tunnels. As I recall, they also have I-93 from Southampton Street to the north side of the Zakim. It used to be amusing when cruisers from E, H, F, and A showed up at a MVA and everyone was point to the other guy saying "It's on you!".

We just laughed because no matter which Barracks it was on, it was our call anyway.
ecps92 wrote:
05 Apr 2018 14:32
Correct on who owned those cars, and if I recall it was the same for F-Troop
which is why those folks didn't have Take-Home Cruisers

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#15 Post by jbella » 09 Apr 2018 12:50

garys wrote:
05 Apr 2018 15:07
Which allowed them to drive to and from the Turnpike in cruisers and in uniform. Which meant that many more "off duty" traffic stops and that much more court OT they could get.

Stupid Herald.


Stupid maybe, but also more troopers on the road for a longer period of time, even if incremental. I've often heard E Troop cruisers on C-Ptl 1 or 3 calling in incidents or saying they're near something and will respond, presumably on their way home.

Yeah there's a few embezzling and doing wrong, but the vast majority are not. You can say that about any organization, public or private. Including mine.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#16 Post by wltrsf » 24 Apr 2018 19:28

Watching WCVB news tonight there was a short piece about Troop E being eliminated along with a picture of the Weston barracks Troop "E" letter replaced by the letter "H". The newscaster stated (mistakenly I believe) that troop E would now be known as Troop H. Probably means old H headquarters is moving to Weston?

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#17 Post by mjd553 » 01 May 2018 22:18

I heard a general broadcast at around 2200 hours on E-PTL-1 33456 that effective 2300 hours tonight there will be no more comms on E-PTL-1.
Troopers assigned to the Weston barracks will switch to H-PTL-2, troopers assigned to the Charlton barracks will switch to C-PTL-3, and troopers assigned to the Westfield barracks will switch to B-PTL-2. In addition, another general broadcast came up on H-PTL-2 that effective 2300 hours H-PTL-3 will be exclusively used by station H9 which I assume was formerly E4. It was also stated that H-PTL-3 will no longer be available for talk-around purposes.

Mike Darche
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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#18 Post by garys » 01 May 2018 22:39

Thanks. I wonder how the cruisers will be renumbered?
mjd553 wrote:
01 May 2018 22:18
I heard a general broadcast at around 2200 hours on E-PTL-1 33456 that effective 2300 hours tonight there will be no more comms on E-PTL-1.
Troopers assigned to the Weston barracks will switch to H-PTL-2, troopers assigned to the Charlton barracks will switch to C-PTL-3, and troopers assigned to the Westfield barracks will switch to B-PTL-2. In addition, another general broadcast came up on H-PTL-2 that effective 2300 hours H-PTL-3 will be exclusively used by station H9 which I assume was formerly E4. It was also stated that H-PTL-3 will no longer be available for talk-around purposes.

Mike Darche
Auburn, MA

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#19 Post by pete » 01 May 2018 23:25

Just heard a radio check with H8 on H-PTL-2. I'm guessing this is Weston. I'm also guessing that the tunnels baracks (old E4) is now H9 which is using H-PTL-3 for comms.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#20 Post by ecps92 » 02 May 2018 07:42

Correct

Altho I would have thought, due to the volume of ERO traffic in the Tunnels they would keep using [and re-designate] the E-PTL-x TG

Only time/monitoring will tell
pete wrote:
01 May 2018 23:25
Just heard a radio check with H8 on H-PTL-2. I'm guessing this is Weston. I'm also guessing that the tunnels baracks (old E4) is now H9 which is using H-PTL-3 for comms.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#21 Post by garys » 02 May 2018 08:50

It would seem, at least to me, to add channel loading to the other TGs and reduce efficiency on the Turnpike itself. Or maybe, they are going to just intermingle off road cruisers with turnpike cruisers? I guess we'll see how it shakes out. More scanning opportunities.

Been listening this morning. Lots of traffic on H Patrol 3. I wonder if they are using this all the way out to the end of the Extension. I'm also hearing what seems like more DOT traffic DOT 8 (32240), but since I don't listen to this a lot, I don't know if that's true or not. DOT 7 (32220) also seems a bit more active, but I don't know what area that covers.

Editorially speaking, this seemed more like knee jerk political move than anything else.
ecps92 wrote:
02 May 2018 07:42
Correct

Altho I would have thought, due to the volume of ERO traffic in the Tunnels they would keep using [and re-designate] the E-PTL-x TG

Only time/monitoring will tell
pete wrote:
01 May 2018 23:25
Just heard a radio check with H8 on H-PTL-2. I'm guessing this is Weston. I'm also guessing that the tunnels baracks (old E4) is now H9 which is using H-PTL-3 for comms.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#22 Post by artb257 » 02 May 2018 14:33

Based on my listening this morning, I can confirm that the Charlton Barracks (formerly E-2) is now designated C-10 and is operating on C-PTL-3. That talkgroup is now also simulcasted on Zone 5.

I am told that the Westfield Barracks (formerly E-3) is now designated B-7 and is operating on B-PTL-2, but I cannot personally confirm this information. If I can do so in the coming days, I will update.

Thanks!
Arthur

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#23 Post by jrm3607 » 02 May 2018 14:39

garys wrote:
02 May 2018 08:50
It would seem, at least to me, to add channel loading to the other TGs and reduce efficiency on the Turnpike itself. Or maybe, they are going to just intermingle off road cruisers with turnpike cruisers? I guess we'll see how it shakes out. More scanning opportunities.

Been listening this morning. Lots of traffic on H Patrol 3. I wonder if they are using this all the way out to the end of the Extension. I'm also hearing what seems like more DOT traffic DOT 8 (32240), but since I don't listen to this a lot, I don't know if that's true or not. DOT 7 (32220) also seems a bit more active, but I don't know what area that covers.

Editorially speaking, this seemed more like knee jerk political move than anything else.
I have DOT 7 labeled as Extension and DOT 8 labeled as HOC. IMHO it would have made sense to leave the tunnel division on E-PTL-4 (which could eventually be renamed to H-PTL-4) that way the now expanded Troop H would still be able to use H-PTL-3 as a talkaround.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#24 Post by garys » 02 May 2018 23:11

Thanks for the updates. I don't know that I'll get to update the Wiki, but I'm sure someone will. Doing some traveling, so I'll be busy.
jrm3607 wrote:
02 May 2018 14:39
garys wrote:
02 May 2018 08:50
It would seem, at least to me, to add channel loading to the other TGs and reduce efficiency on the Turnpike itself. Or maybe, they are going to just intermingle off road cruisers with turnpike cruisers? I guess we'll see how it shakes out. More scanning opportunities.

Been listening this morning. Lots of traffic on H Patrol 3. I wonder if they are using this all the way out to the end of the Extension. I'm also hearing what seems like more DOT traffic DOT 8 (32240), but since I don't listen to this a lot, I don't know if that's true or not. DOT 7 (32220) also seems a bit more active, but I don't know what area that covers.

Editorially speaking, this seemed more like knee jerk political move than anything else.
I have DOT 7 labeled as Extension and DOT 8 labeled as HOC. IMHO it would have made sense to leave the tunnel division on E-PTL-4 (which could eventually be renamed to H-PTL-4) that way the now expanded Troop H would still be able to use H-PTL-3 as a talkaround.

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Re: MSP Troop E to be eliminated

#25 Post by garys » 03 May 2018 09:54

The only problem with that might be how the radios are programmed. I don't know, maybe ecps92 has a better insight. I also don't know if the radios can be reprogrammed over the air (OTAR) or if each portable and mobile needs to be "touched" by radio tech. Now that details on the turnpike, theoretically every radio would need to be reprogrammed. Or they could do it as new cruisers are put into service.

Or they could do nothing.
jrm3607 wrote:
02 May 2018 14:39
I have DOT 7 labeled as Extension and DOT 8 labeled as HOC. IMHO it would have made sense to leave the tunnel division on E-PTL-4 (which could eventually be renamed to H-PTL-4) that way the now expanded Troop H would still be able to use H-PTL-3 as a talkaround.

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