MSCommNet Thread II

Scanning information and discussion for the state of Maine.
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nhfirefighter
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#451 Post by nhfirefighter » 08 Apr 2016 10:56

Odd I changed some programming and added in another site maybe I accidentally changed something else at the same time. I usually do a TG search because of all the different patches I thought it was strange I wasn't hearing any talk groups this morning.

Thanks for the update now I know I need to check my programming.

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ecps92
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#452 Post by ecps92 » 08 Apr 2016 11:45

So we know what Freq was the Offender ?
nhfirefighter wrote:It seems Zone 1 is offline today I haven't heard any traffic on it at all this morning from Ossipee, Hosac or Pleasant sites. I noticed yesterday there was a considerable amount of interference coming over from a Massachusetts law enforcement agency. At one point Gray advised units it was skip coming through a temporary patch set up in Lebanon.

Anyone else noticing the lack of radio traffic today?
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
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"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

nhfirefighter
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#453 Post by nhfirefighter » 08 Apr 2016 12:46

No the interfering agency never identified themselves when units would call dispatch or dispatch would call them. I believe dispatch was usually identified as "headquarters". The interesting thing is most LE in MA are UHF which would indicate to me the temp patch set up was a cross band patch of some sort.

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#454 Post by ecps92 » 08 Apr 2016 12:56

As to Federal LE in Mass they operate mostly in VHF and since MSCommNet shares multiple NTIA channels...

Just a very big WAG - guessing, based on the use of 'Headquarters' - it was one of the NPS, probably Cape Cod National Sea Shore
Welcome to Band Opennings
http://aprs.mountainlake.k12.mn.us/

There are quite a few Federal Frequencies that Maine got allocated that are in use, here in Southern New England and Long Island

nhfirefighter wrote:No the interfering agency never identified themselves when units would call dispatch or dispatch would call them. I believe dispatch was usually identified as "headquarters". The interesting thing is most LE in MA are UHF which would indicate to me the temp patch set up was a cross band patch of some sort.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

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schwab
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#455 Post by schwab » 09 Apr 2016 22:52

In all strangeness, I'm hearing both sides of what sounds like regular Zone 1 traffic on 465.125, PL 69.3. This traffic was coming across this UHF freq, and the Ossipee Regionnet (172.425), but I heard no traffic from the Ossipee trunk site, on any talkgroup. A few moments later, the same SP unit signed on the air with Turnpike HQ on TG 715, this I heard via Ossipee. 465.125 has a strong signal here in Strafford County, NH, on 3 different radios.
Jacob
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ecps92
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#456 Post by ecps92 » 10 Apr 2016 07:27

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/General_Menu_R ... t_select=4
schwab wrote:In all strangeness, I'm hearing both sides of what sounds like regular Zone 1 traffic on 465.125, PL 69.3. This traffic was coming across this UHF freq, and the Ossipee Regionnet (172.425), but I heard no traffic from the Ossipee trunk site, on any talkgroup. A few moments later, the same SP unit signed on the air with Turnpike HQ on TG 715, this I heard via Ossipee. 465.125 has a strong signal here in Strafford County, NH, on 3 different radios.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

CEFD_Thomas
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#457 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 10 Apr 2016 08:29

So are they simulcasting mscommnet on UHF as well?


Thanks,
Thomas
Thomas
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#458 Post by schwab » 10 Apr 2016 08:36

Zone 1 traffic is also on the Aggie Regionnet (155.4525) this morning, and on TG 35130 instead of 711.
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#459 Post by schwab » 10 Apr 2016 08:45

CEFD_Thomas wrote:So are they simulcasting mscommnet on UHF as well?


Thanks,
Thomas
If they are, it seems kind of pointless.
Jacob
KB1VLA

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Maine45
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#460 Post by Maine45 » 10 Apr 2016 08:46

schwab wrote:...I'm hearing both sides of what sounds like regular Zone 1 traffic on 465.125, PL 69.3. This traffic was coming across this UHF freq, and the Ossipee Regionnet (172.425), but I heard no traffic from the Ossipee trunk site....
MSP used the 460.125/465.125 pair (with CSQ) several years ago as a link with a tower in North Berwick to set up a (temporary?) repeater on the old Zone 1 analog primary, 156.1500. This was to provide better local coverage into that area during the year or so that North Berwick PD was dispatched by Gray RCC on Zone 1. This came about when old York County Dispatch was closed and their client agencies were taken on by Gray. Subsequently, NB PD implemented their own repeater and most of the dispatch operation went to the then new Sanford RCC.

Later on, perhaps a couple of years before MSCommNet was implemented, there was occasional MSP traffic heard on 465.125 (CSQ). It was mobile units calling or answering Gray RCC; the base side was not heard and nothing was heard on 460.125 during any of this. I assumed that I was hearing a link from a remote receive site somewhere in York County. It did not seem to be from Ossipee due to signal strength, so it could have been from N Berwick or York DOT, the two other sites the state has licensed in the area (thanks, Bill!). That said, I could have been hearing a very directional signal from Ossipee, I suppose. It was all a bit curious due to the traffic being really sporadic. Wherever it was originating, there was not a sufficient volume of mobile traffic to have been receiving much.

I am a bit handicapped during this present mystery due to temporarily having no outside antennas, logging capability or much spare time. I have heard some references to changes being underway with MSCommNet, but nothing very specific. With my present receiving set up, I can receive the Ossipee site, both trunked system and RegionNet, but I have not noticed the reported outages at Ossipee. What I did hear yesterday was reference to a "Lebanon Tower" and a unit stating he was not getting anything on it. I was not able to get to the scanner in time to see the channel it was received on, however I beleive it was an MSCommNet user. Now, there has not been nor is there a license for a "Lebanon" site, so he may have been referring to the site they would likely use there which would be...Hosac or ?? It is also possible that they have implemented something to address notorious dead spots in the Lebanon area. If I could do so, I would be looking for a new control channel in that area.

Another possibility here is that some part of the microwave backbone system is down and the UHF is being used as part of a workaround. There seems to be an elevated level of patches using the 35### patching talk groups in the last few days which could also be part of a fix. Firing up Unitrunker or Pro96Com might reveal more of what is going on. I will be digging through boxes later today searching for data cables that were inadvertantly packed.
Dick
Southern Maine

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MSCommNet Thread II

#461 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 10 Apr 2016 08:49

Z3A appears to be patched on 35114 on bald mountain this morning. Although odd because it wasn't patched just a few minutes ago.

*EDIT* 4120 just told bangor to clear the patch... Interesting...


Thanks,
Thomas
Thomas
Cape Elizabeth and Charleston, ME
BCD536hp, BCD996p2, BCD436HP, BCD396xt, Motorola XPR7550, Motorola HT1250

nhfirefighter
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#462 Post by nhfirefighter » 10 Apr 2016 09:21

A thought regarding the UHF usage - could this be something they set up for interoperability purposes with fire agencies responding to incidents on the turnpike? Such as Wells and Kennebunk who operate on UHF?

Also I noticed yesterday a Kittery PD unit came up on MSCOMMNET Zone 1 so apparently they have the ability to access the system. This was a spur of the moment type transmission due to an incident so I don't believe Gray had opened up a regionnet patch for them.

CEFD_Thomas
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#463 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 10 Apr 2016 09:27

nhfirefighter wrote:A thought regarding the UHF usage - could this be something they set up for interoperability purposes with fire agencies responding to incidents on the turnpike? Such as Wells and Kennebunk who operate on UHF?
That would be the only reason I can think of seeing how there's no pd's in york county, or maine that I'm aware of for that matter, that use UHF.
Thomas
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schwab
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#464 Post by schwab » 10 Apr 2016 10:24

nhfirefighter wrote:A thought regarding the UHF usage - could this be something they set up for interoperability purposes with fire agencies responding to incidents on the turnpike? Such as Wells and Kennebunk who operate on UHF?

Also I noticed yesterday a Kittery PD unit came up on MSCOMMNET Zone 1 so apparently they have the ability to access the system. This was a spur of the moment type transmission due to an incident so I don't believe Gray had opened up a regionnet patch for them.
Any VHF radio can access the system via the Regionnets, I would assume that all the fire apparatus in communites that are primarily on UHF would also have a VHF radio (or even one of the newer dual-band commercial radios) installed, for interop.
Jacob
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Maine45
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#465 Post by Maine45 » 10 Apr 2016 10:29

nhfirefighter wrote:A thought regarding the UHF usage - could this be something they set up for interoperability purposes with fire agencies responding to incidents on the turnpike? Such as Wells and Kennebunk who operate on UHF?
It's a great idea, however it is a secret if that's the case. Fire/EMS units responding on to the Pike are still using the Pike channel, 151.0700 (107.2). The three towns that respond on the Pike that dispatch on UHF; Kennebunk, Wells and Ogunquit, also have VHF capability.
nhfirefighter wrote:Also I noticed yesterday a Kittery PD unit came up on MSCOMMNET Zone 1 so apparently they have the ability to access the system. This was a spur of the moment type transmission due to an incident so I don't believe Gray had opened up a regionnet patch for them.
I do not believe that any local or county agencies have direct access to the system other than via the RegionNets. And, as you indicate, my understanding is that a patch would normally be required for a non-state unit to make access via a RegionNet. However, there may also be exceptions to that. They would likely have used the York DOT RegionNet, which is one of the Zone Primary rebroadcast RNs. They seem to operate a bit differently than the other sites and there has not been much use of them yet to know how they work. It is also possible Kittery Dispatch contacted Gray RCC when the unit was dispatched.
CEFD_Thomas wrote:Z3A appears to be patched on 35114 on bald mountain this morning. Although odd because it wasn't patched just a few minutes ago...
It's not odd. The patches may be very short duration or last for days. TG 711 has reprotedly been patched to TG 35130 since at least sometime yesterday. Using Pro96Com or Unitrunker will allow you to see the details of the patches behind the scenes. A lot of that is still a mystery, however. Many of the patches are between talk group #s that do not ever appear on receivers. Some represent RegionNets; others are not known.

Watching all this as closely as I can this morning, the Ossipee site seems to be just fine. Patch TG 35130 is still obviously linked with TG 711; and TG 715 and some corrections group have been heard on Ossipee. I am not hearing anything on the previously discussed UHF channel, or, surprisingly, on the Aggie RegionNet.
Dick
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CEFD_Thomas
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MSCommNet Thread II

#466 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 10 Apr 2016 10:51

MFS using central ops 1 today downeast. One of the units was garbled and then the conversation appears to have switched to TG 1011 which I have as MFS-Unknown encrypted. The units had a hard time getting ahold of each other at first on ops 1 so they may just be playing around with other channels but I thought this might help to ID the TG better.
*EDIT* the traffic on 1011 is encrypted


Thanks,
Thomas
Thomas
Cape Elizabeth and Charleston, ME
BCD536hp, BCD996p2, BCD436HP, BCD396xt, Motorola XPR7550, Motorola HT1250

CEFD_Thomas
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#467 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 10 Apr 2016 11:23

Unrelated to my previous post, Zone 3A is currently patched to MFS OPS 1 a user calling himself "ranger 920" with a UID of 9980921 is talking with 4100 and 4120. What I found odd about this is we have uid's of 9980*** as radio techs. I think 4120 is having radio issues and they made the patch to test his radio so maybe ranger 920 is using a radio tech's radio or is a radio tech?


Thanks,
Thomas
Thomas
Cape Elizabeth and Charleston, ME
BCD536hp, BCD996p2, BCD436HP, BCD396xt, Motorola XPR7550, Motorola HT1250

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ecps92
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#468 Post by ecps92 » 10 Apr 2016 11:44

Guess So - only time will tell.
Maybe time to look for other UHF Licenses too
CEFD_Thomas wrote:So are they simulcasting mscommnet on UHF as well?


Thanks,
Thomas
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

CEFD_Thomas
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#469 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 10 Apr 2016 11:47

ecps92 wrote:Guess So - only time will tell.
Maybe time to look for other UHF Licenses too
I just don't understand why they would. Maybe national interop but other than that I don't see who in maine would need a uhf regionnet.
Thomas
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#470 Post by schwab » 10 Apr 2016 14:49

465.125 has a very strong signal in the Dover/Somersworth area, I've got it programmed in my mobile radio for now. I'm guessing it's coming from Agamenticus, I might have to go up there and pull the antenna off the radio and see if I can still hear it.
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#471 Post by schwab » 10 Apr 2016 16:17

schwab wrote:465.125 has a very strong signal in the Dover/Somersworth area, I've got it programmed in my mobile radio for now. I'm guessing it's coming from Agamenticus, I might have to go up there and pull the antenna off the radio and see if I can still hear it.
Gray is also on 460.125/69.3, this freq is weaker than 465.125, maybe from Ossipee?
Jacob
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#472 Post by KA1TIV » 10 Apr 2016 23:10

I don't normally comment on what user IDs I have picked up, but there is a block of user IDs from about 9980900 to about 9980950 which all appear to be pilots which work for the Forrest Service. They will normally operate through "patch talk groups" (35xxx) to talk to Forrest Rangers as they are flying to their destination (where those Forrest Rangers are). The Vendor techs that I have picked up are from about 9980100 to about 9980700 and normally refer to each other by first names.

Mark
Mark Caribou, ME.

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#473 Post by ecps92 » 11 Apr 2016 07:00

Spent sometime browsing the FCC FRN of 4041992 for UHF Frequencies and the FCC times out each time, after only 190 licenses.
I then tried 450-470 Mhz and the full name of "Maine, State of; Office of Information Technology" Stripping out the obvious NON related (such as the Veterans Cemetary in Augusta)

Some might be MSCOMMNET others ? The only was is to listen and report back what get's heard
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=1266997
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=1267806
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=1267823
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=1292267 - Poss MEMA Remote Links
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=1578692 - Poss MEMA Remote Links
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2345788
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2886989
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2931476
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2940347
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2958800 - Poss Forestry with Remote Links
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2963956
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2975260 - Poss Forestry with Remote Links
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2978383 - Poss Forestry with Remote Links
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... ey=2978387



Maine45 wrote:MSP used the 460.125/465.125 pair (with CSQ) several years ago as a link with a tower in North Berwick to set up a (temporary?) repeater on the old Zone 1 analog primary, 156.1500. This was to provide better local coverage into that area during the year or so that North Berwick PD was dispatched by Gray RCC on Zone 1. This came about when old York County Dispatch was closed and their client agencies were taken on by Gray. Subsequently, NB PD implemented their own repeater and most of the dispatch operation went to the then new Sanford RCC.

Later on, perhaps a couple of years before MSCommNet was implemented, there was occasional MSP traffic heard on 465.125 (CSQ). It was mobile units calling or answering Gray RCC; the base side was not heard and nothing was heard on 460.125 during any of this. I assumed that I was hearing a link from a remote receive site somewhere in York County. It did not seem to be from Ossipee due to signal strength, so it could have been from N Berwick or York DOT, the two other sites the state has licensed in the area (thanks, Bill!). That said, I could have been hearing a very directional signal from Ossipee, I suppose. It was all a bit curious due to the traffic being really sporadic. Wherever it was originating, there was not a sufficient volume of mobile traffic to have been receiving much.

I am a bit handicapped during this present mystery due to temporarily having no outside antennas, logging capability or much spare time. I have heard some references to changes being underway with MSCommNet, but nothing very specific. With my present receiving set up, I can receive the Ossipee site, both trunked system and RegionNet, but I have not noticed the reported outages at Ossipee. What I did hear yesterday was reference to a "Lebanon Tower" and a unit stating he was not getting anything on it. I was not able to get to the scanner in time to see the channel it was received on, however I beleive it was an MSCommNet user. Now, there has not been nor is there a license for a "Lebanon" site, so he may have been referring to the site they would likely use there which would be...Hosac or ?? It is also possible that they have implemented something to address notorious dead spots in the Lebanon area. If I could do so, I would be looking for a new control channel in that area.

Another possibility here is that some part of the microwave backbone system is down and the UHF is being used as part of a workaround. There seems to be an elevated level of patches using the 35### patching talk groups in the last few days which could also be part of a fix. Firing up Unitrunker or Pro96Com might reveal more of what is going on. I will be digging through boxes later today searching for data cables that were inadvertantly packed.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

CEFD_Thomas
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#474 Post by CEFD_Thomas » 11 Apr 2016 08:43

KA1TIV wrote:I don't normally comment on what user IDs I have picked up, but there is a block of user IDs from about 9980900 to about 9980950 which all appear to be pilots which work for the Forrest Service. They will normally operate through "patch talk groups" (35xxx) to talk to Forrest Rangers as they are flying to their destination (where those Forrest Rangers are). The Vendor techs that I have picked up are from about 9980100 to about 9980700 and normally refer to each other by first names.

Mark
Ahhh that makes sense. I would be nice if we could update the wiki with this to eliminate further confusion.
Thomas
Cape Elizabeth and Charleston, ME
BCD536hp, BCD996p2, BCD436HP, BCD396xt, Motorola XPR7550, Motorola HT1250

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#475 Post by Maine45 » 11 Apr 2016 12:07

CEFD_Thomas wrote:Ahhh that makes sense. I would be nice if we could update the wiki with this to eliminate further confusion.
It will be updated, but the confusion will not be ended. The UIDs in the 9980### series are a mixed bag. They are all generally units that are not (normally) from Maine state agencies. These have included radio techs from Harris and local radio dealer RCM. These units are operating directly on the trunk system and seem to have fixed UIDs. Other units (local, county and likely a federal unit) have been heard that are being patched through a RegionNet and there are indications that the system has assigned them a UID temporarily and that it is not fixed and will differ the next time they access the system.

I agree with Mark that some forestry aircraft have been using the 9## callsigns. I have heard them a number of times using the Cook Hill RegionNet as they depart their base in Old Town. So it would appear they are assigned the 9980### UIDs as a result of accessing the system that way. They may have issues using the trunk system directly at altitude, such as not being able to select the appropriate site or even trying to key up multiple sites. Or they may not have been able to install the trunking radios in the aircraft due to size or whatever.

So, the Wiki will continue to be updated, but this particular area will never be all-inclusive due the nature of it.

This morning I was able to get Pro96Com working, and Aggie and Ossipee were showing a patch between TG 711 (Zone 1A) and concealed TG 151, which almost certainly would represent the Aggie RN, all via Patch TG 35130. When this type of patch is in operation, TG 711 will not be indicated on a receiver; only TG 35130 will display. I was finally able to receive the Aggie RN while in my vehicle, and it is/was still rebroadcasting TG 711 traffic with the customary weakish audio as heard on the other rebroadcasting RNs.

The reason for the continued patch is unknown at this time.
Dick
Southern Maine

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