A forum for the discussion of all aspects of amateur radio, but with emphasis on amateur radio operation in our coverage area. HF, VHF, UHF, P25, DStar, packet, anything amateur radio related is welcome here.
MrSvenSven wrote:Is anyone besides icom/kenwood going to be making idas radios, or is it not an open standard? I'm still leaning towards P25 because of the large number of companies that make the radios.
Yes. Here's a link for you to check the various radio, infrastructure and test equipment manufacturers that are producing equipment for this standard. Furthermore, I'm hearing a rumor from a friend in the Fire Department who claims that one of these radio manufacturers is planning a radio that can combine IDAS/Nexedge and P25 into the same radio. Theoretically, I think this may be true, since the Icom IDAS radios do have TWO expansion slots. Only one is taken up with the IDAS module, leaving the other open unless an encryption or man down module is also installed.
All of these outfits are also heavily involved in P25 of course. I find it interesting though, that so many P25 players are jumping on this standard so eagerly.
n1oty wrote:Yes. Here's a link for you to check the various radio, infrastructure and test equipment manufacturers that are producing equipment for this standard. Furthermore, I'm hearing a rumor from a friend in the Fire Department who claims that one of these radio manufacturers is planning a radio that can combine IDAS/Nexedge and P25 into the same radio. Theoretically, I think this may be true, since the Icom IDAS radios do have TWO expansion slots. Only one is taken up with the IDAS module, leaving the other open unless an encryption or man down module is also installed.
All of these outfits are also heavily involved in P25 of course. I find it interesting though, that so many P25 players are jumping on this standard so eagerly.
John
N1OTY
John, I think you forgot the link.
Kenwood is using the radio case from their NXDN portable for their new smaller P25 radio. I wonder if they just unplugged the NXDN module and plugged in a P25 one.
I think that most of the companies going with this or a DMR type system are doing so because it makes good business sense to offer systems at every price point. P25 is a High end system and these are more mid price.
Kenwood is using the radio case from their NXDN portable for their new smaller P25 radio. I wonder if they just unplugged the NXDN module and plugged in a P25 one.
I think that most of the companies going with this or a DMR type system are doing so because it makes good business sense to offer systems at every price point. P25 is a High end system and these are more mid price.
Although I enjoy playing with P25, I have always felt that its prime goal was to separate as much money from the taxpayers as humanly possible. I'm sorry, but it is seriously overpriced, which is why it is aimed at government/public safety. IDAS/Nexedge pricing is certainly more reasonable. MOTOTRBO is also somewhat reasonable, but that second slot is such a waste for someone only needing one frequency and I don't believe that technology will prevail once the FCC actually begins a push toward 6.25 khz. DMR and TETRA seem destined to end up as more of a European standard. I am not so sure that either can make inroads here, but time will tell.
For ham use, I'm in favor of just about any communications technology that's new and different, just for the "fun" factor.
The advantage of P25, in my opinion, is that your radio can be used for public safety monitoring as WELL as for ham use. In New Hampshire, there's a TON of VHF conventional P25 usage by police, fire, etc.
I had a very pleasant conversation with Will, N1PXA, a week or so ago... he said he's been been making EFJ P25-capable radios available to the ham community at VERY reasonable prices (like $150) for quite some time.... so cost needn't be an issue for P25.
One of the reasons I prefer P25 is how inexpensive and available the equipment is compared to Dstar and other formats. I don't know anyone who has bought a radio new or was even thinking about it so the new price is really immaterial to me. But looking at the second hand prices P25 is cheaper by far just due to the time its been on the market and the amount of it already out there. My first venture was a P25 UHF Astro-Saber Three for 250.00. I then found VHF and UHF XTS 3000 Model 3's in the 350 range and grabbed a couple. Mobiles are harder to find but if you scour Batlabs and Ebay they are out there. If your looking for Front Panel Programmability while now you have brought up the cost significantly as this is a very rare feature in the Public Safety world.
I see what John is saying if your looking for new equipment but if used dosen't scare you P25 I think is much cheaper.
There are P25 UHF repeaters in Waltham and Boston. There are VHF P25 repeaters in Waltham and Worcester.
DSTar now on the Pru and Salem NH on VHF
Many on UHF in Western and Central mass.
ScanBoston wrote:One of the reasons I prefer P25 is how inexpensive and available the equipment is compared to Dstar and other formats. I don't know anyone who has bought a radio new or was even thinking about it so the new price is really immaterial to me. But looking at the second hand prices P25 is cheaper by far just due to the time its been on the market and the amount of it already out there. My first venture was a P25 UHF Astro-Saber Three for 250.00. I then found VHF and UHF XTS 3000 Model 3's in the 350 range and grabbed a couple. Mobiles are harder to find but if you scour Batlabs and Ebay they are out there. If your looking for Front Panel Programmability while now you have brought up the cost significantly as this is a very rare feature in the Public Safety world.
I see what John is saying if your looking for new equipment but if used dosen't scare you P25 I think is much cheaper.
There are P25 UHF repeaters in Waltham and Boston. There are VHF P25 repeaters in Waltham and Worcester.
DSTar now on the Pru and Salem NH on VHF
Many on UHF in Western and Central mass.
Not sure on the new formats John has mentioned.
Now and then, decent deals can be found on P25 radios for end users, especially handhelds. The repeaters and mobiles tend to still be quite expensive, barring an occasional lucky find.
Recently, I tracked a couple of "J" split Astro Spectra's with a digital flash, remote mounting and 110 watt output. I thought it would be interesting to try the VHF Waltham repeater. Unfortunately, this well used radio sold for over $800. Over $800 for an old, well used radio that had been heavily used (abused?) in a police car for years!!!!! The last XTL2500 I saw went for over $1000!!! The last XTL5000 I saw with the newer style head went for $1400!!!!! And let's not forget what the typical, used, digitally flashed Quantar is going for these days. The last P25 Quantar I saw had a price tag of $2500 with NO warranty.
And God help anyone wishing to purchase a P25 radio with the new vocoder. If you want the latest, you'll have to pay new pricing. Used AMBE+2 P25 radios are not available right now. The last price sheet I saw for a middle of the road XTL2500 with a decent digital flash was over $2500. IDAS and Nexedge allow you to play with the same advanced vocoder for just over $500, brand new with a two year warranty.
Scott/SNE Webmaster wrote:Just out of curiosity, is the digital board mentioned in this link IDAS?
It is, but there are a couple of caveats regarding that particular listing. First, the UT-119 has been replaced by the UT-126 digital board for the mobile radios. Anyone selling a mobile with the UT-119 board is not selling you the absolute latest. Second, that particular radio he is selling does not come with the digital board at that price. The digital board generally adds another $160 to $175 to the overall cost.
BTW, the Taunton group is putting a radio buy together now and expect to get pricing for the F5061 WITH the digital board already installed for just slightly over $500, brand new with a two year factory warranty.
I'm not in the market right now unfortunately, it was more of a curiosity query. It's too bad that the best of both worlds can't be had in one of these radios, meaning both P25 and IDAS. Ah well, that's a fantasy that won't come true anytime soon if at all. Still interesting food for thought and a neat alternative. I'll watch with great interest to see if it catches on. Thanks John.
Scott
SNE Maintenance/Janitor/Fixer of "Things"
Scanner Master Customer Service Rep
n1oty wrote:Furthermore, I'm hearing a rumor from a friend in the Fire Department who claims that one of these radio manufacturers is planning a radio that can combine IDAS/Nexedge and P25 into the same radio. Theoretically, I think this may be true, since the Icom IDAS radios do have TWO expansion slots. Only one is taken up with the IDAS module, leaving the other open unless an encryption or man down module is also installed.
John
N1OTY
Well John, it looks like your friend was correct. Kenwood has now listed the NX-210 portable on their website. Its VHF NXDN (both conventional and trunking) and is available with a "P25 Upgrade Option*". They haven't posted a brochure or other specifics yet so I'm not sure exactly what that option entails but it certainly bears further watching / investigation.
KB1NVI wrote:Well John, it looks like your friend was correct. Kenwood has now listed the NX-210 portable on their website. Its VHF NXDN (both conventional and trunking) and is available with a "P25 Upgrade Option*". They haven't posted a brochure or other specifics yet so I'm not sure exactly what that option entails but it certainly bears further watching / investigation.
Watch this one closely as I've also heard that one of them, maybe this Kenwood, will do a bridge firmware upgrade first. The intention supposedly is to let the end user bump the firmware CHANGING the radio from iDAS/Nexedge to P25. Essentially, the first iterations may not do both iDAS/Nexedge, but subsequent offerings will do both.
Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense for the manufacturers to combine iDAS/Nexedge and P25 in one radio for the future. The Railroads have adopted iDAS/Nexedge as their radio standard going forward. Public Safety has adopted P25. Both standards are using the same vocoder going forward. The only difference is the air interface which should be easy to manipulate.
Interest in Mototrbo by the amateur radio community is growing rapidly.
I have had an Internet connected Mototrbo repeater linked to other Mototrbo repeaters in California and Washington state since last summer.
While digital is not for everyone, I am truly impressed with the Mototrbo product and the outstanding coverage it provides.
I will soon have my UHF Mototrbo repeater interconnected with my analog 2 meter repeater. Hopefully this will show local hams how clear and consistent the audio quality is.
Motorola has also announced the Mototrbo repeater will become mixed mode capable later this year. Currently I can remotely change the operating mode of my XPR8300 repeater from digital to analog. This is done using the Motorola RDAC program that also allows me to see the status of all the other interconnected Mototrbo repeaters on our network. RSSI of mobiles operating on the California repeaters is easy to see on RDAC.
It is unfortunate that Motorola is not interested in pursuing the amateur radio market the way ICOM has.
Randy, WB0VHB
[quote="KB1NVI"]There are MOTOTRBO Ham repeaters in California and also in either Wisconsin or Minnesota (can't remember which).
My UHF XTS3000 M II came today. I am finally P25 capable!
I plan on buying another in the VHF range soon.
I was hoping to make my first P25 contact today, but I am having trouble keying up the Westborough repeater. I think the person who programmed the radio did it wrong. I am not too far away from Westborough. Can anyone help me get this programmed correctly? I don't have the software for this.
laxplurr06 wrote:
I was hoping to make my first P25 contact today, but I am having trouble keying up the Westborough repeater.
You might not know that you're making it into the repeater, too. I don't think the Westborough repeater has an "over beep", and you won't hear any squelch tail if you just key the repeater. And the audio coming BACK to you from the repeater will be equivalent to DFQ (it's digital, so there's no static, right?).
I usually program my XTS radios to have the red light on top of the radio when it's receiving a ham channel. If you do that, one way that you can often check to see if you're making it into the repeater (and the repeater is making it back to you) is to watch to see if the red light stays lit for a second or two after you release the PTT. Unless there's a tone, or somebody answers you, this is often the only way to know that you and the repeater are talking.
laxplurr06 wrote:
I was hoping to make my first P25 contact today, but I am having trouble keying up the Westborough repeater.
-Jeff
Westboro has a very short "tail" I only see like 1.5 red flashes on my xts(s)
Even when I can get into it, noone ever comes back, I must have a bad call or something
creeperjeep wrote:Westboro has a very short "tail" I only see like 1.5 red flashes on my xts(s)
Even when I can get into it, noone ever comes back, I must have a bad call or something
I have tried listening with my pro-96, and I am unable to hear myself. I have also tried to contact a man on the repeater and got no answer. I have also noticed that to listen I have to use the monitor key to listen to a conversation, but it was completely clear of background noise. I wasn't having trouble receiving it.
I am surprised you can make it all the way from the cape. I am just about 18 miles away from the machine, so I shouldn't have a problem getting my signal in.
The frequency it transmits on is 443.775, so there is no problem there. I am actually transmitting a NAC of 293. My BCD396xt scanner found this. Thats the problem.