Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

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n1zyy
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Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by n1zyy »

I'm working through another Discovery run on VHF, and am again being thrown through the loop with the scanner guessing step size wrong. As an example, I found Cataldo EMS at 152.3650, but they're actually 152.3675. Same issue with Haverhill Fire, 154.3600 (actually 154.3625). When I don't find it the first time, I search 2.5 kHz above and below it on the wiki to see if I've found an existing frequency, or something new.

I wonder if it might make sense to create a wiki page listing the "wrong" and the actual frequency, plus the user?

E.g.,:

| Tone | Incorrect | Actual | User |
| D155 | 152.3650 | 152.3675 | Cataldo EMS |

The NXDN stuff gets even more nutty with its 6.25 kHz channels.

My thinking is that this way, people searching for what their scanner shows will get a search result showing them the correct frequency and who is using it. The idea would be to list only frequencies that people submit as problematic, rather than trying to build some comprehensive band plan.

That said -- I will readily admit that there's something slightly nutty about a wiki page listing wrong frequencies, so I won't be hurt if people hate the idea. But if people like it, I'm happy to try to get an initial list going.
Matt, N1ZYY ★ Lowell, MA

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ecps92
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by ecps92 »

A lot of it comes down to knowing the FCC Band Plans, and/or adjusting the scanner channel spacing, many of the older scanners do not handle 6.25 but the 12.5 does work well enough for local monitoring.

I would think listing BAD frequency information would just promote bad data submissions, vs teaching/educating users to investigate vs assume something is correct.
And the use of SDR is one, where I see folks reporting use, and it is not even close to an FCC allocated frequency.

n1zyy wrote:
15 Dec 2019 21:33
I'm working through another Discovery run on VHF, and am again being thrown through the loop with the scanner guessing step size wrong. As an example, I found Cataldo EMS at 152.3650, but they're actually 152.3675. Same issue with Haverhill Fire, 154.3600 (actually 154.3625). When I don't find it the first time, I search 2.5 kHz above and below it on the wiki to see if I've found an existing frequency, or something new.

I wonder if it might make sense to create a wiki page listing the "wrong" and the actual frequency, plus the user?

E.g.,:

| Tone | Incorrect | Actual | User |
| D155 | 152.3650 | 152.3675 | Cataldo EMS |

The NXDN stuff gets even more nutty with its 6.25 kHz channels.

My thinking is that this way, people searching for what their scanner shows will get a search result showing them the correct frequency and who is using it. The idea would be to list only frequencies that people submit as problematic, rather than trying to build some comprehensive band plan.

That said -- I will readily admit that there's something slightly nutty about a wiki page listing wrong frequencies, so I won't be hurt if people hate the idea. But if people like it, I'm happy to try to get an initial list going.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

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W1KNE
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by W1KNE »

I don't want wrong, or bad frequencies listed in the wiki. Unfortunately the wiki is such a broad-brush system for database use, and our specific use would require something more sophisticated. Radio Reference will do this, where a search comes up with a search range.

If we transitioned to a more custom built database, we could potentially do that, along with the ability to search without 0's. (i.e. search for 154.175 vs 154.1750).

Maybe it's something I do need to look into. Databases are usually fairly easy to build and maintain.

-- Mike
Mike Fitzpatrick
Broadcast Engineer - RF Enthusiast
Owner: Scan New England - NECRAT.US
Issues with Scan New England can be privately addressed to me. W1KNE at scan-ne.com.

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Scott
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by Scott »

SDR's work perfectly fine for tuning and accuracy if they are used correctly. I have some "small experience" with such things... :D

I agree that a "bad frequency" list is probably not ideal, but maybe a Wiki page that outlines bandplans might be a good idea.

As to databases, I always wanted to find a way to tie our NEFD type lookup directly to FCC ULS data, but I am not even close to knowing how to figure it out. But, it would be nifty.

Finally, if NEFD is used, and the trailing zero's are left out of the search, i.e. 155.37 instead of 155.37000, splinter frequencies should come up...the 6.25 KHz ones are a bit problematic but the idea in general is "less is more".
Scott
SNE Maintenance/Janitor/Fixer of "Things"

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ecps92
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by ecps92 »

So, based on your comment about issues with Adjacent Frequencies, we have begun
building out a Wiki, built/based on the FCC channel plans as posted in the many FCC.gov pages.

Not all are Part 90, some Part 15, others Part 80, Part 22 etc
T-Band will be awhile, behind some other projects and we already have a 700 and 800 is not needed.
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... F_Low_Band
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... _High_Band
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... _High_Band
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... annel_Plan

I expect to add more to the Comments fields, such as shared use [FEDERAL and Wireless Microphones]

n1zyy wrote:
15 Dec 2019 21:33
I'm working through another Discovery run on VHF, and am again being thrown through the loop with the scanner guessing step size wrong. As an example, I found Cataldo EMS at 152.3650, but they're actually 152.3675. Same issue with Haverhill Fire, 154.3600 (actually 154.3625). When I don't find it the first time, I search 2.5 kHz above and below it on the wiki to see if I've found an existing frequency, or something new.

I wonder if it might make sense to create a wiki page listing the "wrong" and the actual frequency, plus the user?

E.g.,:

| Tone | Incorrect | Actual | User |
| D155 | 152.3650 | 152.3675 | Cataldo EMS |

The NXDN stuff gets even more nutty with its 6.25 kHz channels.

My thinking is that this way, people searching for what their scanner shows will get a search result showing them the correct frequency and who is using it. The idea would be to list only frequencies that people submit as problematic, rather than trying to build some comprehensive band plan.

That said -- I will readily admit that there's something slightly nutty about a wiki page listing wrong frequencies, so I won't be hurt if people hate the idea. But if people like it, I'm happy to try to get an initial list going.
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

sawyer100
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by sawyer100 »

my opinion: I use the old scanner pocket guide, but moreso I research their FCC license to get the actual frequency first. Then I add it into my scanner, listen to capture the CTCSS/DCS/P25 NAC/Color Code/RAN, then use scan-ne or RadioReference to compare my (captured tone) is in fact the user I'm researching. Listening to a scanner pick up someone and you automatically choose it's this user can be wrong. VHF & UHF has many freqs in between others, and to highlight a problem... Every Uniden BCD996P2 scanner does not listen in narrowband, like a two-way radio. My scanners end of hearing the freq before, the actual one, and the one above. So I can pick up someone on the adjacent freq as clear on the actual one, so verify the FCC database freq before I post the freq here.

garys
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by garys »

I have found that even the newer SDR dongles need some adjustment based on what band you're trying to listen to. Airspy is the only hardware that is always spot on.

On my mobile set up, I always "calibrate" the control dongle first on a known system. Once that's done, I'll adjust the voice dongle.


Scott wrote:
17 Dec 2019 08:24
SDR's work perfectly fine for tuning and accuracy if they are used correctly. I have some "small experience" with such things... :D

I agree that a "bad frequency" list is probably not ideal, but maybe a Wiki page that outlines bandplans might be a good idea.

As to databases, I always wanted to find a way to tie our NEFD type lookup directly to FCC ULS data, but I am not even close to knowing how to figure it out. But, it would be nifty.

Finally, if NEFD is used, and the trailing zero's are left out of the search, i.e. 155.37 instead of 155.37000, splinter frequencies should come up...the 6.25 KHz ones are a bit problematic but the idea in general is "less is more".
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

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ecps92
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by ecps92 »

as a heads up, to assist all with FCC Search related functions, besides having the channel plans, VHF Low, VHF-Hi, UHF and T-Band

we now have an FCC launch page at your disposal
https://scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php?title=FCC
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

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n1zyy
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by n1zyy »

ecps92 wrote:
10 Mar 2020 13:19
So, based on your comment about issues with Adjacent Frequencies, we have begun
building out a Wiki, built/based on the FCC channel plans as posted in the many FCC.gov pages.

Not all are Part 90, some Part 15, others Part 80, Part 22 etc
T-Band will be awhile, behind some other projects and we already have a 700 and 800 is not needed.
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... F_Low_Band
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... _High_Band
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... _High_Band
https://www.scan-ne.net/wiki/index.php? ... annel_Plan

I expect to add more to the Comments fields, such as shared use [FEDERAL and Wireless Microphones]
I'm a bit late in responding, but -- this is a fantastic help. Thanks!

When my scanner was ID'ing things on invalid splits and it wasn't obvious to me, I could search the wiki and see zero results. Now if only my scanner could just learn this...
Matt, N1ZYY ★ Lowell, MA

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ecps92
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Re: Idea - wiki page with common frequency errors

Post by ecps92 »

Now with the Wiki's built out and missing some - Note/Comment info
if anyone has suggestions to ADD, make a submission or suggestion.

I tried to indicate [likely missed a few] some of the old Paging/RCC channel names for reference as well as the VHF Marine
and do need to get back in and add the International Marine [altho not LEGAL in the US] as they do get used in the near-by Waters.
n1zyy wrote:
21 May 2020 23:09
I'm a bit late in responding, but -- this is a fantastic help. Thanks!

When my scanner was ID'ing things on invalid splits and it wasn't obvious to me, I could search the wiki and see zero results. Now if only my scanner could just learn this...
Bill Dunn N1KUG
Cruise Ship Frequencies
http://scanmaritime.com

"The tougher it is to find a frequency, the more it makes me want to work to find it. - I've learned to use the SEARCH Button"

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