DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

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NIGHTHAWK01
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DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by NIGHTHAWK01 »

I noted in the wiki that Ludlow PD is showing as having a talk group. With the 436 I am only picking up the color code (CC5) & slot (S1) which matches the wiki and type of system show as DMR. The same applies to Holyoke FD showing color code and slot but no talk group. Do I need to enable something in the radio to show talk group OR did these systems change to single channel conventional repeater DMR?
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Ken
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by AJ1L »

All DMR systems have talkgroups, whether they're trunked or conventional.
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n1zyy
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by n1zyy »

I'm not familiar with Ludlow's setup specifically, but DMR group calls always have a talkgroup whether conventional or trunked. So I wouldn't take a talkgroup as indicating it's necessarily trunked.

In some ham networks (DMR-MARC, for example), multiple talkgroups can be used on a slot (obviously only one at a time), sort of like an analog community repeater with multiple PLs. I suspect this is uncommon in public safety or commercial usage, though, and a color code and slot match is all you need.
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by W1KNE »

On a conventional channel on the x36 series, erase the channel name and it'll display the talkgroup.

Go to menu, manage favoritess, navigate to the desired channel, edit name, press "." Twice, hit enter, it'll ask to default to name, press enter again, back out to scan.
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NIGHTHAWK01
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by NIGHTHAWK01 »

Ok thanks for the information. I found also that if in the search mode and stopped on that channel it will provide the talk group information.

W1KNE wrote:
18 Jan 2021 21:32
On a conventional channel on the x36 series, erase the channel name and it'll display the talkgroup.

Go to menu, manage favoritess, navigate to the desired channel, edit name, press "." Twice, hit enter, it'll ask to default to name, press enter again, back out to scan.
Ken
Chicopee, MA

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by W1KNE »

NIGHTHAWK01 wrote:
20 Jan 2021 15:52
Ok thanks for the information. I found also that if in the search mode and stopped on that channel it will provide the talk group information.
In Quick Search mode, always.
In Custom Search mode, like with scanning, the name must be default to show the TG.
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LD723
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by LD723 »

LPD only uses one talkgroup for both slots. When there are tests on the system they use random talkgroups and such but they only use one talkgroup primarily for main.

maggieo
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

Hi! I have a 436, live in Granby, MA and I'm trying hard to get Ludlow, MA PD. I live 2-3 miles from Ludlow and always got them before they went to DMR. I have the DMR upgrade. Someone above was talking about slots? Anyway, I am using 453.25 and I'm getting nothing. No color, no talking, no static, nothing.

LD723
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by LD723 »

maggieo wrote:
22 May 2021 18:48
Hi! I have a 436, live in Granby, MA and I'm trying hard to get Ludlow, MA PD. I live 2-3 miles from Ludlow and always got them before they went to DMR. I have the DMR upgrade. Someone above was talking about slots? Anyway, I am using 453.25 and I'm getting nothing. No color, no talking, no static, nothing.
Their signal is very spotty as usual they are still on 453.250. Some units complain of issues not getting through the repeater here and there

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by W1KNE »

LD723 wrote:
23 Jan 2021 20:34
LPD only uses one talkgroup for both slots. When there are tests on the system they use random talkgroups and such but they only use one talkgroup primarily for main.
All the dispatching and operations I've heard in the dozen or so times I've monitored have been on TS01. I haven't actually seen TS02 used at all.
It's just a conventional system, so only one slot / talkgroup would be used. The talkgroup could occur on the second slot, and is probably a second channel.
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LD723
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by LD723 »

W1KNE wrote:
22 May 2021 21:47
All the dispatching and operations I've heard in the dozen or so times I've monitored have been on TS01. I haven't actually seen TS02 used at all.
It's just a conventional system, so only one slot / talkgroup would be used. The talkgroup could occur on the second slot, and is probably a second channel.
The 2nd is used as a 2nd channel but it is rarely used

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by CG »

I would verify the programming. I use Favorites only and not the zipcode stuff so my reply is based on that.
There are two ways to program it in. One is as a conventional channel and the second is as a Single Channel Trunked DMR. I would suggest that the first would be the best unless you want to see the unit IDs.
Verify that:
Frequency is 453.2500
Audio Type is DIGITAL ONLY
Digital Code Option is SEARCH or DMR Color Code=5
Modulation to AUTO
Attenuator to OFF
Service Type to LAW DISPATCH (if you use the service types)
Verify that Avoid is set to STOP AVOIDING

chris

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

Thank you all for your prompt replies. I think you are right. I have to have something programmed wrong.. Between the Single Channel Trunked and Conventional. I'll try to change/test it tonight- but if not tomorrow for sure. That has to be it. I don't think I can "change" it - right" I have to Program it new.. I'll figure it out! Sentinel isn't the best for some of these settings! Thanks again - MAggie

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by W1KNE »

maggieo wrote:
23 May 2021 22:31
Thank you all for your prompt replies. I think you are right. I have to have something programmed wrong.. Between the Single Channel Trunked and Conventional. I'll try to change/test it tonight- but if not tomorrow for sure. That has to be it. I don't think I can "change" it - right" I have to Program it new.. I'll figure it out! Sentinel isn't the best for some of these settings! Thanks again - MAggie
Actually if your Sentinel is up to date, the RR listing for Ludlow is 100% correct. You could just throw in the Ludlow Zip Code and a range of 1 mile, and see if you get it that way.
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garys
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by garys »

Maggie,

I copied this from my Sentinel files. Like CG, I don't use the RR Database for local scanning. Your settings should match this,

LUDLOW POLICE DEPARTMENT - 453.250000 FM Color Code 5 Law Dispatch Off 2sec Off Off 0 0 Off
maggieo wrote:
23 May 2021 22:31
Thank you all for your prompt replies. I think you are right. I have to have something programmed wrong.. Between the Single Channel Trunked and Conventional. I'll try to change/test it tonight- but if not tomorrow for sure. That has to be it. I don't think I can "change" it - right" I have to Program it new.. I'll figure it out! Sentinel isn't the best for some of these settings! Thanks again - MAggie
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

Since it had been programmed as Conventional, I tried DMR One Frequency - but apparently I don't have the upgrade I need for that? I definitely have "a" DMR Upgrade." I need to check on that.. However, It did come down from Sentinel (isn't that the RR DB?) with the Color Code 5 and the frequency. As conventional. And it didn't work.
Gary - when you program yours, what kind of system are you using?
Conentional, DMR Single Frequency, P25 Single frequency?
You guys have gotten me SO close... Thank you again!! Maggie

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

UPDATE - Not sure why - but.. AGain - I have the 436HP. I definitely purchased a "DMR" upgrade. I have a key for it. When I look in my scanner, under settings, Upgrade, there's upgrade ProVoice, UpGrade DMR/MotoTRBO amd Upgrade NXDN. When I select Upgrade DMR/MotoTRBO, it's wanting me to enter my key. I DO have a key.. and I'm pretty sure when this all became available in 2016, I used some freq's from some of the folks, and I thought I saw some colors.. which would imply I had DMR.. Could the key number have been cleared out? Again - I have a key- but I don't want to enter it here if something's weird about the whole thing. I am 99.99% sure that I would have programmed the key when I got it. Thanks - in advance. Maggie

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by CG »

If you click on the "Upgrade DMR/Mototrbo", you should see that is has already been activated. If not, look at the Uniden site.
You would have registered the radio on the Uniden website and then purchased the key. The key is then entered manually into the radio. You can retry the entering process if you still have the key email or go to the Uniden website and look at your radio. The key is shown on your Uniden account.

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by W1KNE »

CG wrote:
25 May 2021 07:44
If not, look at the Uniden site.
Step by step:

https://my.uniden.com/

1) Log In

2) Click "All my scanners" on the right

3) Find your scanner and the DMR key.
The DMR key will be in the middle column, and will be a 24 digit Hexi-decimal key.

4) Follow the instructions to enter into your scanner, on your scanner.

If the upgrade says "Enter the key", you purchased the key but it wasn't entered into the scanner. If it says something along the lines of already upgraded it's all set.
It sounds like you bought the upgrade but never programmed the key into the scanner which an easy fix.
Mike Fitzpatrick
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maggieo
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

Hi Folks. I have the key. I'll just enter it now. What I don't get is how did I search for DMR stuff and see some colors on the scanner. Back when it was first avail on this radio, someone sent out these spreadsheets of frequencies and I think I made a search or something - but no idea how or why I'd have done any of that - had I not entered the key! Anyway - I'll entire it now and I bet things will work much better!!!
Thanks - and for sure I'll report back.. DUH on me.. that's all I can say!!

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

Well, y'all have helped me immensely. Downloading exactly what's in Sentinel, I am now getting some traffic - it shows DMR and the Slot # and says Color 5.. I (somehow) thought the scanner showed a color. Maybe there's an alert color I had set - once upon a time.
I'm not sure I can "leave well enough alone" but for the moment, I am doing exactly that!

Anyway - thank you a TON for your help.. I don't know how I could never have programmed that DMR key...

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by W1KNE »

maggieo wrote:
25 May 2021 22:24
Well, y'all have helped me immensely. Downloading exactly what's in Sentinel, I am now getting some traffic - it shows DMR and the Slot # and says Color 5.. I (somehow) thought the scanner showed a color. Maybe there's an alert color I had set - once upon a time.
I'm not sure I can "leave well enough alone" but for the moment, I am doing exactly that!

Anyway - thank you a TON for your help.. I don't know how I could never have programmed that DMR key...
I am so happy for you! Glad we could help and welcome to Scan New England. Glad you took my advice over on Radio Reference and came here.

:)
Mike Fitzpatrick
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Owner: Scan New England - NECRAT.US
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garys
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by garys »

The term "Color Code" is a bit odd for something that you can't actually see.
maggieo wrote:
25 May 2021 22:24
Well, y'all have helped me immensely. Downloading exactly what's in Sentinel, I am now getting some traffic - it shows DMR and the Slot # and says Color 5.. I (somehow) thought the scanner showed a color. Maybe there's an alert color I had set - once upon a time.
I'm not sure I can "leave well enough alone" but for the moment, I am doing exactly that!

Anyway - thank you a TON for your help.. I don't know how I could never have programmed that DMR key...
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

maggieo
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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by maggieo »

Very true Gary - and I don't understand what half of any of this mean, but I totally enjoy listening..
Here's a question for you both.. If I wanted to program the ludlow DMR freq as trunked - so I could get the talk groups, how would I do that? Would I choose DMR Single Frequency? However then the options are different than those listed above by Chris.. Using either Sentinel or the scanner to program, my options/settings are not exactly the same as these:
Verify that:
Frequency is 453.2500
Audio Type is DIGITAL ONLY
Digital Code Option is SEARCH or DMR Color Code=5
Modulation to AUTO
Attenuator to OFF
Service Type to LAW DISPATCH (if you use the service types)
Verify that Avoid is set to STOP AVOIDING

Thanks again - and if you're sick of me for now, you can ignore this.
Everyone over here has been Super nice and helpful and I'm glad I took Mike's suggestion to try for help here.. Worked out great for me - thank you all again. Maggie

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Re: DMR Conventional Versus Trunking?

Post by garys »

One thing to remember about One Frequency Trunking (OFT) is that you have to created a new system for it. You can't mix conventional and trunking in the same system. Which is why I very rarely use it.

So using either ARC536 or Sentinel, you'd have to create a new DMR trunk system. You'd select "New DMR One Frequency System and then add the frequency as a Site for the system. In there, you'd put the frequency, LCN, and Color Code. LCN would be 1 since it's the only frequency. Then you'd create a new department and put the Talk Group and Alpha Tag in there. That's also you'd put the audio type, service type, delay, and other settings.

Unless Ludlow uses both Time Slots and you want to see the individual Unit IDs, I don't know if it's worth your time to do it. I did it for my town's public works department, but eventually deleted it and just programmed it as a conventional channel.
We're peace loving people, we're not hunting trouble, but if trouble should find us, we'll stand up and fight.

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