Programming Comm of MA 700Mhz system in x36HP scanners

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garys
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Programming Comm of MA 700Mhz system in x36HP scanners

Post by garys »

I'm looking for input on how to program the P25 "700 Mhz Overlay" system into my x36HP scanners. I've had this programmed since I first got the scanners, but I'm not sure that I've got the set up right. I have the systems set up in DSD+ and I receive more traffic on that than the scanners.

Currently, I have the system set up as P25 x2 TDMA, with only the four identified control channels programmed, modulation set to FM. I have good signal strength into the scanner, but far more traffic shows up on my computer with DSD.

Both systems are running off of the same antenna.

Does anyone else have a x36HP scanner with this system set up?

Thanks,

Gary
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cdgordon
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Post by cdgordon »

It is a P25 system, not X2

chris

jbella
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Post by jbella »

I put the 700 system in as part of a statewide P25 favorites list.

I've included The W. Mass sites, Cambridge, Massport and Worcester into a giant list.

ymmv, but for me it works. keeping the TGs in 1 iant list and punching in and out the sites.

ScanBoston
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Post by ScanBoston »

I do not have a phase 2 scanner yet but I hear a lot of phase 1 use. I'm sure there is phase 2 traffic I'm missing. I will say the phase 1 use is all stuff that is patched from Zone 1, Zone 5 and UHF and could just as well be listened to there. The phase 2 traffic is probably more interesting if not encrypted. I do hear some encrypted traffic in phase 1 there.

garys
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Post by garys »

Can you explain further. I set it up as x2 because there are Phase 2 talk groups on the system. Mostly encrypted, but there are some in the 4xxx range. The display on the scanner shows PT0 and PT1. So, are you saying that if I program it as P25 it will still do that? Or are you saying that the system isn't capable of Phase 2?

ETA: I just did a download from RR and it shows this as a P25 X2 TDMA system. That holds for Cambridge and Worcester, although MassPort is still listed as Type II, but I'm not sure about that either since other sources show it as Part of the Commonwealth P25 system.



cdgordon wrote:It is a P25 system, not X2

chris
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LPD7
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Post by LPD7 »

I have mine set up as a P25 system. When I'm in range, I receive Phase 1 and Phase 2 traffic. Some of the Boston city services appear to be using PT0 (Phase 2, time slot one) and some use regular P25 (Phase 1). It appears that the scanner does not recognize Phase 2 encryption as it does not mute it and you will hear the scrambled data sound. There are some other TG's that use encryption that I am yet to identify. Also, I have caught some Phase 2 TG's on the Cambridge site.

garys
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Post by garys »

That's interesting. I might try reconfiguring the system. My guess is that newer radios are Phase 2 capable, but some of the legacy equipment is not. Phase 2 systems are backwards compatible, so if a Phase 1 user affiliates with a Phase 2 TG, that TG will revert to Phase 1.

The scanner definitely does not recognize or mute Phase 2 encryption. That's a frequent comment on Radio Reference. I would think that at some point Uniden will fix that. I think all of the newer systems are Phase 2 capable, even if they mostly use Phase 1.


LPD7 wrote:I have mine set up as a P25 system. When I'm in range, I receive Phase 1 and Phase 2 traffic. Some of the Boston city services appear to be using PT0 (Phase 2, time slot one) and some use regular P25 (Phase 1). It appears that the scanner does not recognize Phase 2 encryption as it does not mute it and you will hear the scrambled data sound. There are some other TG's that use encryption that I am yet to identify. Also, I have caught some Phase 2 TG's on the Cambridge site.
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Post by MrSvenSven »

57446

garys
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Post by garys »

I know that. I just don't know if Uniden just uses X2 TDMA as a lable. Downloads from the RRDB into ARC536 show a system type of X2 TDMA for the system. Using it that way seems to work because I'm listening to the 700 Mhz Overlay system now and have no problem hearing the Phase 1 Talk Groups. There are so few Phase 2 Talk Groups that it's hard to know if I'm missing something or not. There's a long answer to my post in the Voice/Control Channel decoding forum to questions I had about using DSD+. I think I'm going to have to ask in the Uniden forum over there to see if I should use X2 or P25 for this and the other systems that share the controller (Worcester, Cambridge, MassPort).

Oh, I forgot to mention. DSD+ shows four 770.xxxx frequencies that are tagged as TDMA. Apparently, there are frequencies available in the 700 band for statewide license use that don't need to be individually licenses. Three of them are in the RRDB, but I don't see them here in the Wiki. 770.15625, 770.45625, 770.90625 are in the RRDB, 770.95625 is not.
MrSvenSven wrote:X2 and phase 2 are different.

http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.ph ... X2-TDMA.22
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Post by cdgordon »

It IS P25, not X2. There are very few X2 systems and MSP is not one of them. If you read the link in post 8, it indicates X2 was a Motorola guess at what the P25 standard revision that addressed Phase 2 would include. They were not correct and they had to make changes. It is not a Uniden invention. There are/were systems that use X@. MSP is NOT one of them.

chris

garys
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Post by garys »

I'm not disputing that. What I don't know is if Uniden used X2 TDMA as a label. If their firmware for "P25" covers phase -&-2, then thats how the scanner should be programmed. That the RRDB download for the x36 scanners lists the system as X2 just adds to the confusion. Hopefully UPMan will answer my question about this on RR.

cdgordon wrote:It IS P25, not X2. There are very few X2 systems and MSP is not one of them. If you read the link in post 8, it indicates X2 was a Motorola guess at what the P25 standard revision that addressed Phase 2 would include. They were not correct and they had to make changes. It is not a Uniden invention. There are/were systems that use X@. MSP is NOT one of them.

chris
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cdgordon
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Post by cdgordon »

I don't know where you are seeing this reference to the MA 700 as being shown as X2 but the RR Database and my current Sentinel download for my 536 both say P25 and not X2.

chris

garys
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Post by garys »

That is how it is labeled when I do a download from the RRDB into ARC536. "P25 X2 TDMA". The other choice for System Type is P25 Standard. It might be a download error. I'll change the System Type to P25 and see what happens.
cdgordon wrote:I don't know where you are seeing this reference to the MA 700 as being shown as X2 but the RR Database and my current Sentinel download for my 536 both say P25 and not X2.

chris
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